The Truth About the Great Tribulation - Part Two

The Truth About the Great Tribulation - Part Two

Be sure to read Part 1 in our presentation.

Consider the following.

Jesus said that the Abomination would be set up in the holy place and that when the apostles witnessed it they were to flee from Judea. Now, ask yourself the question: If the Great Tribulation that Jesus was predicting was to be greater than the Flood (Frost says that AD 70 was a “drop in the bucket” compared to the Flood), how could the apostles escape from it by fleeing Judea? After all, Judea is a pretty small (relatively tiny!) geographical area, certainly exponentially smaller than the globe! Keep in mind that Frost affirms– as in the debate– that the Flood was global and universal. Okay, fine! But that demands an answer to the question! Will Frost offer that answer? We shall see!

Luke 21 adds a significant detail:

Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

That final sentence, “let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto” confirms the point being made. If the Tribulation was to be universal, global, why the restriction for those in the Judean countryside from entering Jerusalem? Once again we are confronted with contextual reality that simply forbids any kind of futuristic global Tribulation. But Luke is not through giving us some powerful information that refutes the futurist view.

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Here, the physician further informs us of the Judean, first century context for this tribulation.

✸ It was to be a time of wrath against Jerusalem and “this people.” This is NOT a prediction of a Tribulation that will engulf America, or Russia, South America or China.

✸ It would be when the men of Jerusalem would “fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations” (v. 24). Does Mr. Frost believe that in his proposed future Tribulation that it will be focused on Judea, Jerusalem and the Jewish people? He has not said, to my knowledge.

✸ Note the “primitive” nature of the conflict. This is primitive warfare, fought with swords, not a time of atomic bombs, airplanes, lasers and drones!

✸ To re-emphasize, this Tribulation would be focused on Jerusalem and Judea: “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Two things here, both of which utterly refute the futurist claims about the Great Tribulation.

First, we must drive home the point that this tribulation is focused on Jerusalem, first century Jerusalem, Judea and “this people.” It says nothing about modern Jerusalem or America.

Now, does Frost posit that the coming Great Tribulation in his view, is predicting covenant wrath against “this people” i.e., the Jews as foretold in Luke 21:24? According to his argument that the Holocaust was worse than AD 70, that demands that his proposed future Great Tribulation, which would bring wrath against “this people,” is a prediction of something that far exceeds the Holocaust!

Second, the duration of the Tribulation is actually set forth, even if cryptically to the modern reader: “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles”– this is patently referent to the Tribulation - “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

So, to restate the case from just above, Jerusalem is the focal point of the Tribulation. Why would / will Jerusalem be the chief target of some proposed future Tribulation?

And - this is critical- what are the times of the Gentiles? Dispensational commentators claim it is reference to the period from AD 70 until either 1967, or even 1948. There is a great deal of agreement among scholars that it refers to a long period of time, i.e., the Christian era, that consummates with the Second Coming of Christ. I will keep my citations to a minimum.

William Hendrickson (New Testament Commentary, Luke (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2002), 939) – Cites S. Greijdanus and Lenski who both say that the times of the Gentiles began in AD 70 and continue and refer to “the time of oppression for Jerusalem that will last ‘to the end of the centuries, the coming of the final judgment and the return of Christ in glory, the very theme to which the Lord now (in verses 25-28) turns.” Hendrickson says, “with this judgment I am in agreement.”

I do not believe that this assessment will stand. The actual linguistics of the text falsifies this claim

Jesus said that Jerusalem would be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles was fulfilled. While, as noted, commentators posit the times of the Gentiles as the period that runs from AD 70 until Christ’s parousia, this violates the idea found in the word translated as “trodden down.” That word is pateo. In contrast to the common idea that Jesus was speaking of simply political, social, economic oppression, even enforced by military might, this word speaks powerfully of active, hostile, violent conflict, even active warfare. A quick look at how it is used in Scripture confirms this.

In Isaiah 10:5-7 - The Lord said that the Assyrians thought to trample down cities. Military destruction is patently the idea. Isaiah 63:2-6 – This text refers to the destruction of Edom four times to speak of the past treading down of Edom. Micah 7:10 – “Then she who is my enemy will see, And shame will cover her who said to me, “Where is the Lord your God?” My eyes will see her; Now she will be trampled (LXX, pateo) down like mud in the streets.” Lamentations 1:15 - “The Lord has trampled underfoot all my mighty men in my midst. Lamentations 2:8 – “The Lord had purposed to destroy (pateo) the wall of the daughter of Zion.” Jeremiah looks back on the conquest and destruction of Jerusalem by the Chaldeans and describes it as being trampled and destroyed (pateo). Daniel 8:10 – Antiochus, the Little Horn is described: “And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped (pateo) upon them.” Luke 10:18f - When we come to the New Testament we find in that Jesus said that he had given his apostles the power to trample underfoot the serpents. In Revelation 10:1-2, we find a text that is virtually synonymous with Luke 21:24 - “And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

We thus have reference to “the holy city.” And of course, Jerusalem was “the holy city.” We have the trodding down (from pateo) of the holy city. We have the trodding down of the holy city by the Gentiles. Luke has “the times (from kairoi– plural– of kairos, meaning the divinely appointed time for the trodding down). And we have a time frame for that trodding down– forty two months, a very clear “divinely appointed time.” (Is it mere coincidence that the Jewish War lasted for 3 ½ years?)

The parallels between Luke 21 and Revelation are enhanced by the fact that the holy city in view in Revelation is also the city “Where the Lord was crucified” (11:8). That makes the connection firm, and it shows that “the times of the Gentiles” is not a reference to centuries of Gentile control of Jerusalem, but rather to the time of the Jewish War, the active, hostile, trodding down of the city.

I suggest that Heinrich August Wilhelm Meyer, and John Lightfoot (along with many others) are correct in their assessment of the times of the Gentiles as completely fulfilled in AD 70. Meyer understands “the times of the Gentiles” as meaning:

“till the time that the . . . completion of divine judgments . . . shall have run out. . . . Such times of the Gentiles are ended . . . by the Parousia (Lk. 21:25-27), which is to occur during the lifetime of the hearers (verse 28); hence those KAIROI are in no way to be regarded as of longer duration…” (Heinrich August Wilhelm Meyer, Critical and Exegetical Hand-book to the Gospels of Mark and Luke. Volume 3: Luke-John Reprint of the sixth edition of 1884, (Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers, 1983), 530-531).

John Lightfoot likewise understands the “times of the Gentiles” to have ended in that first century generation that saw the signs:

“…nothing could be said clearer . . . than that of verse 32; ‘Verily, I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled.’ It is strange this should be no more observed … these very words are as a gnomon to the whole chapter.” (John Lightfoot. A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, Reprinted from the 1859 edition of Oxford University Press, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1979), 199).

Of many, many additional quotes that could be given, we offer this from Lloyd Gaston, (No Stone on Another, (Leiden; Brill, 1970), 361)- “What is meant is rather a time of Gentile oppression in retribution for the sins of Jerusalem.”– He gives Amos 3:11; 5:5, 27; 6:14; 7:11, 17; 9:1-4 as parallels).

The point in all of this is that it is untenable to suggest, as so many commentators do, that the “times of the Gentiles” is equal to the Great Tribulation which spans the entirety of the Christian age until some proposed end of human history. To reiterate the point from above, to make this suggestion demands that the city of Jerusalem will lie under God’s covenantal wrath until the end of human history.

Having established the Judean focused nature of the Great Tribulation let’s look closer at Sam Frost’s claims about the Great Tribulation.

Frost argued in our debate that the coming Tribulation must be global / universal because Jesus said “Unless those days be shortened, no flesh shall be saved.” Thus, Frost is emphasizing the Global nature of the Tribulation i.e., “No flesh will be saved.” Frost completely ignores the geographical (Judean) emphasis in Jesus’ narrative. He likewise ignores the focus of this wrath “this people” and “the holy place.” It seems clear that the “no flesh” referent is to the inhabitants of Judea, (not the globe), which is the focus of the Great Tribulation. Let me express the problem like this:

If it is true that the Flood was global– per Sam Frost.

And,

If it is true that the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24:21 was to be greater than the Flood,

And,

If it is true that the apostles could escape the coming Great Tribulation by fleeing Judea- per Jesus,

Then,

It must be true that the coming Great Tribulation was to be greater than the Flood in some manner different from geographical coverage.

Let’s face it, if the Flood was global and the Tribulation was to be exponentially greater than the Flood, then no one was going to escape the coming Tribulation by fleeing Judea!! Frost has taken a position that is simply untenable.

Notice that Jesus said the Abomination would be set up “Then (tote) shall be great tribulation.” The word then is from the Greek word tote, and means at that time, at that point of time. There is no justification for even suggesting that the Abomination would be set up and THEN, 2000 years or more later, the Tribulation would take place. That violates the text and context. After all, when Jesus said “then shall be great tribulation” he proceeded to say (Matthew 24:16-21)...

16 Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains...

(Pay particular attention to the fact that Jesus said, “When you see the abomination,..Then (Greek tote) let those in Judea flee to the mountains. In other words: “When you see, Flee!”

It is certainly improper to try to insert a temporal gap between the appearance of the Abomination and the flight from Judea! The word “then” forbids that. And there is more here.

As suggested just above, if the Tribulation is worse than the global flood as Frost demands, how, exactly, would fleeing to the mountains provide safety, sanctuary and deliverance from that Tribulation? According to Eusebius, the early Christians fled Jerusalem, based on Jesus’ command, with the approach of the War, and fled eastward to Pella. (I guess those first century Christians did not get Frost’s note that the Tribulation was not for their generation or that the Tribulation would be global! I guess they did not realize that flight to Pella would never deliver them from the universal, global catastrophe that was coming. Perhaps their flight to the mountains was simply coincidentally what Jesus said to do)?

Consider that it is only 65-75 miles- as the crow flies, up to 125 miles by walking route - from Jerusalem to Pella! Yet, Jesus’ warning implied that traveling that 125 miles would allow them to escape the coming Great Tribulation, that Frost says will be greater than the flood. Well, did fleeing to the mountains deliver anyone from the flood in Noah’s day? Would fleeing some 100+ or so miles have delivered them from that Flood?

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. ... 21 For then (tote) shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We must honor the urgency of these warnings. With the appearance of the Abomination, when they recognized it for what it was, if they were on their roof tops, they were supposed to get out of town immediately! The warning, “Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house” makes a temporal connection between the Abomination and the ensuing Tribulation that cannot be extended for any long period.

And of course, we have to observe that this warning only fits the ancient “sitz em leben”– the life situation- of ancient times. In the Jerusalem of the first century (as well as other cities and towns of the era) the houses were built one joining another. Because of this, in an emergency they could simply run from roof top to roof top to escape any perceived danger. This hardly fits the architectural practices of modern times, where there is normally a significant space between houses and even when that is not true, the roofs are steeply pitched. Thus, Jesus’ warning not to come down but to flee simply would not apply to modern times, modern cities, modern houses. The context of the Abomination, the Tribulation and flight does not fit a modern society and culture.

The same sense of urgency of flight applies to Jesus’ warning: “Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.”

Once again, when we consider what is being argued by Frost and those like him, what Jesus said does not work in a modern context. If the coming Tribulation was to be global and worse than the flood, what difference would it make if a person was on their roof or in the field? There would be no escape from the kind of Tribulation that Frost demands. But keep in mind that Jesus is giving them a way to escape from that coming Great Tribulation, and that was flight, urgent flight– from Judea! The “localized” nature of the Tribulation is simply unavoidable and undeniable. It was not to be some global, earth wide Tribulation.

So, to reiterate, Frost needs to answer: if the coming Tribulation was to be greater than the global Flood how could the apostles escape the Tribulation by fleeing Judea and traveling a bit over 100 miles? That amounts to a specious, untenable claim.

We now come to another key element of Jesus’ discourse. He said, “immediately after the tribulation of those days.... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven” (Matthew 24:29-30).

What this text explicitly teaches is that the coming of the Lord and the resurrection was to take place “immediately after the Tribulation.” This is a fact set forth repeatedly throughout the Bible, but is commonly overlooked. (See my presentation at the Arkansas Eschatology Seminar, held in Jonesboro, Arkansas, 2024). For brevity I will not document this extensively. Let me just make two observations.

In Matthew 24:31 Jesus foretold his coming on the clouds, with the sound of the Great Trumpet to gather the dispersed. This is a direct echo / allusion to Isaiah 27:12-13:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

The context of this prediction is found in 27:9f where the Lord said He had slain Israel by sending her into captivity. He was not talking about killing individuals biologically, but He had cast the nation out of His presence (See Hosea 5:14- 6:1-5). By sending them into captivity He had killed them. But here in 27:12-13, He was promising to re-gather them in the end time resurrection, the time of the coming of the Lord (26:19f) with the sound of the great trumpet at the resurrection when Satan would be destroyed and the martyrs vindicated ( 26:21; 27:1-2). This is what Jesus was echoing in the Olivet Discourse. And that means that when he said

Immediately after the tribulation of those days, they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And the Son of Man shall send forth his angels with the sound of the great trumpet and they shall gather together the elect from the four winds...

So, Jesus was predicting that the resurrection would be immediately after the Great Tribulation. But that is not all that he said. In addition to what we have presented above, we find that in verse 34 Jesus said that all of the things he had been predicting, the World Mission, the Abomination, the Tribulation, and now the parousia and resurrection was to be in that generation! Attempts to divorce v. 34 from the predictions of the Abomination, the Tribulation and the parousia are abuses of hermeneutic and exegesis. So, let’s summarize.

✔ Jesus posited the Abomination for the first century generation. He told his apostles that they would see it set up, as Daniel had foretold.

(Side note, Sam Frost, contrary to the historical view of the church, denies that Daniel foretold the first century setting up of the Abomination. He says that the Abomination was set up in the time of Antiochus, and that Jesus was simply stating that his apostles would see an event that would remind them of what was done by Antiochus. But the language of Matthew 24:15 will not allow that construct).

✔ That Abomination of Desolation was to be set up in the Temple, per Daniel. (Once again, Frost denies this, but given the NT use of Daniel 9 and 12 which did predict the Abomination being set up in the Temple, we easily reject Frost’s anti-Messianic claims).

{Whether one admits that Daniel foretold the events of the first century, the fact remains that Jesus said his apostles would see the Abomination set up in the holy place!}

✔ The Great Tribulation would follow the setting up of the Abomination “Then shall be great tribulation.” The Great Tribulation would not be hundreds or thousands of years removed from the setting up of the Abomination.

✔ When the apostles witnessed the Abomination they were to flee Judea and go to the mountains. This means that the Tribulation was to be sufficiently geographically localized that flight from Judea to the mountains would deliver them from that Tribulation.

✔ Since the apostles could escape from the Great Tribulation by fleeing from Judea to the mountains– ostensibly to Pella, some 125 miles away– this totally negates the idea that the Great Tribulation was to be a world wide event! This should place the emphasis on the significance of the Tribulation rather than on how many people died or how many survived. Thus, I agree with Kenneth Gentry that: “I would argue: first, the covenantal significance of the loss of the temple stands as the most dramatic redemptive-historical outcome of the Jewish War” (Kenneth Gentry, He Shall Have Dominion (Draper, VA: Apologetics Group Media, 2009), 347).

✔ Since Jesus urged flight from Judea to the mountains this proves that when he said “when you see” and urged them to flee Judea, he was not using the “you” and pronouns in an editorial, “royal you” manner to speak of some future unknown generation. He was speaking very personally, very directly to his apostles and that generation.

✔ Thus, when Jesus said that the parousia and the resurrection would occur immediately after that first century, Judea based Tribulation, this delimits the time for the parousia and the resurrection to the first century.

Closing Side Bar: As I noted in the first installment, the Abomination of Desolation would be the cause of the Great Tribulation. And in view of Sam Frost- and Dispensationalists - that future Tribulation will be exponentially worse than anything earth has ever seen. But consider this. If the proposed future Tribulation is to be the worst in history, and would be the direct result of Israel’s horrific violation of Torah, does this not logically suggest (demand) that Israel’s future sin will likewise be the worst sin in their history? But how could any future sin be worse than the sin of killing the “prince of life”, the Son of God? If the “punishment must fit the crime” then it appears to me that those who posit a yet future Tribulation that far exceeds the first century Tribulation must likewise be telling us that in the future (supposedly our very near future) will commit a crime that is drastically worse then their sin of killing the Son of God! Such a suggestion stretches credulity far beyond the ability to accept it.

 

In the final analysis, therefore, Sam Frost’s futurism, based on his vacillating views of the Tribulation and his faulty analysis of the Greek text, are found to be fundamentally flawed and false. Furthermore, our examination shows definitively that any futurist application, or anticipation, of the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 is misguided. This is very good news!